Introduction to the Masterclass

Neha: Hello, everyone. Welcome to yet another episode of the Digital Adoption Show. Today, we are diving deep into a discussion critical for the success and ever-evolving L&D landscape. It will be a free masterclass on upskilling and reskilling your workforce. I’m your host, Neha Smriti, Growth Marketing Manager at Whatfix.

This episode promises to be a game-changer, equipping you with the knowledge to future-proof your organization and empower your employees. To guide us through this dynamic conversation, we have assembled a dream team. First, we have Dr. Hannah Gore, a titan in the L&D, HR, and recruitment world with a staggering 25 years of experience.

Hannah’s impressive resume includes leading a business school across 93 countries, working with industry giants, and creating content for a whopping 10 million learners globally. Currently, she’s the Head of People at Quacquarelli Symonds, recently recognized as one of the top hundred most loved workplaces in the UK.

Joining her is the brilliant Teresa Rose, an award-winning learning and performance consultant and the founder of ConsultHer Ltd. Teresa brings over 15 years of expertise in organizational and people development, tackling everything from program design to large-scale global change initiatives. Her impressive client list includes prestigious names like DNV, the World Bank, Toshiba, and GSK, to name a few. Hannah and Teresa, welcome to the show. We are really excited to have you. Before we jump into the questions, we would love to know your journey in the L&D space. Teresa, why don’t we start with you this time?

Teresa’s Journey

Teresa: Uh, I’ve had quite a squiggly journey to where I am today, which started as an antique dealer at the age of 17, which not a lot of people know. I did that for seven years. After that, I went into retail management for some high street brands, Dunelm being one of those, the soft furnishings company, if you’ve heard of them. Then I went into sales and worked in media and educational technology sales for 10 years, working my way up to Head of UK Sales. The company was acquired by a US owner, and they didn’t know what they were doing from the people point of view, dealing with the closure of an organization and all of the HR side. So, I found myself dealing with that and enjoyed it. I thought, “Oh, I think I’ll take this on as my new career,” took my redundancy, and did my master’s in HR while working on an interim basis to build up some knowledge and expertise. That included HR generalist roles and then I went to work for E.ON where I was there for 10 years, touching everything from learning design to a global role on their digital transformation. I spent a lot of time doing research on how people learned at work and what we needed to do to make that offer far more effective and modern. After 10 years there, I took voluntary severance and for the last five years, I’ve been working as a self-employed consultant with different names, the ones that you mentioned in the intro.

Neha: Great to meet you, Teresa. You have covered all the different themes that we usually host on our show—digital transformation, HR, L&D—and you have covered everything. You will have some great insights to share today. Over to you, Hannah. Tell us more about you and your journey.

Hannah’s Journey

Hannah: Yeah, so my journey started 25 years ago next year. So big celebration for me there. I started out in sales, but in a very strategic way. My family are either business people or education people, and so I’m the hybrid of the family. I started out working in sales but as a business improvement team leader, teaching people how to sell better, understand clients better, and make sure we are giving the best possible customer service and most importantly, the return on investment.

I then moved into the prison service, working in employment litigation for three years, which was a very interesting time. I also worked in health and safety training there. I then jumped into the Open University for 13 years, working in cutting-edge technologies and delivering content to 10 million learners worldwide. We got to work with Amazon, Apple, and really cutting-edge technologies and learning designs, working in the very infancy of MOOCs. From there, I joined Solera, a company that no one has ever heard of, but everyone uses. I was head of talent development there for a few years until COVID came. I worked across 93 countries, building everything in their business from scratch, based on everything that I had learned and studied in my doctorate while I was at the Open University.

During the COVID years, I worked for myself, helping different companies understand their learning and development, HR needs, and recruitment needs. Then I joined Quacquarelli Symonds, which has been fantastic. I developed their three-tier leadership program, which is open entry and doesn’t require a secret handshake to get in. Along the way, I have presented at conferences, written for HR Zone and Training Zone, and seen technologies evolve and our ways of working with those technologies.

Neha: Amazing. Both of you have had slightly different trajectories, but both of you have entrepreneurial journeys. I’m totally looking forward to the episode.

Identifying the Need for Upskilling and Reskilling

To kick off the episode, my first question for you both is: how can we identify when our workforce needs upskilling or reskilling? What would be your major key indicators that organizations can watch out for? And how can upskilling or reskilling be strategically implemented to address the changing job market demands? Teresa, let’s start with you.

The Importance of Data and Insights in Identifying Upskilling and Reskilling Needs

Teresa: Oh, where do I start on this? There’s a lot to unpack and a lot to say. Data, that’s the first thing that comes to my mind around this is what data and insights have you got that tell you there is either a reskilling or an upskilling need? And with that data, are you also testing or disproving that hypothesis? You might think there’s a certain problem, but is it the real problem you think you have? It’s similar to going to the doctor—you might have a symptom, and the doctor treats it, but it’s not the underlying problem. It’s very similar when you’re presented with reskilling and upskilling and the differences between those and what your strategy and approach might be.

I’ve been talking a lot about skill segmentation, thinking about the BCG matrix—what skills are deriving the most value for you? What are the disruptive skills, the problem children? What skills are causing failure demand in your organization to your customers? What data have you got about your customers and what they need and want? It’s about gathering that data initially and deriving insights. You can have as much data as you want, but if you’re not gathering insights and making decisions and taking actions, you’re not going to get anywhere. It’s not about opinions either, though they might come into it a little bit. What’s the data and insights telling you? If you’ve got gaps, gather more data and do that fact-finding before you start to make investments in learning programs because somebody thinks it’s a good idea based on a report from the World Economic Forum that says we should be doing these top 10 future skills. If they don’t have relevance to your organization, they don’t give a purpose to your people and don’t serve customers and generate value and income. That’s my long short answer on that.

Neha: Amazing. Hannah, over to you. We would love to listen to you as well.

Differentiating Upskilling and Reskilling: Understanding Industry Needs and Future Goals

Hannah: Yeah, I mean, like with Teresa, I could talk about data all day long. It’s a big love of Teresa and mine. For me, it’s building on what Teresa is saying. There’s a lot of L&D people out there who are fantastic at L&D, but if you give them a pop quiz about the industry their company is in, they may not do as well. I can’t emphasize enough the importance of understanding the data of the customers and the industry they are in. It’s not just about the top 10 skills that LinkedIn says we need. You need to understand your company, the industry it’s in, and its five-year goals to understand the difference between upskilling and reskilling.

Upskilling is about refining the skill set you already have, potentially getting some new skills but for your existing role. Reskilling is about brand new technology and ways of working, like the advent of AI. That’s a reskill, not an upskill. If you’re using SAP and SAP comes out with a new upgrade, that’s an upskill. If they bring out a brand new AI platform, that’s a reskill. Companies need to understand the difference because they use the terms interchangeably.

It’s also important to understand where your CEO wants your company to be in five years. You need to upskill your people now and reskill them for the future. If your CEO wants a certain market share in five years, you need to look at a skills gap analysis for all employees. At QS, we look at the skills our people have and where we need to position them in the future. You have to start today to get them there. Continuing to evaluate data is crucial because things move and change rapidly.

Fostering a Culture of Continuous Learning

To follow up on that, fostering a culture of continuous learning is very important for upskilling and reskilling. Since you have tackled such large-scale change projects yourself, what are some effective strategies organizations can adopt to foster that culture and encourage employee participation in upskilling and reskilling? Hannah, let’s start with you.

Creating a Culture of Continuous Learning through Performance Reviews and Daily Practices

Hannah: For me, the continuous learning culture starts with the performance review process. You work backwards from that. Many times, you go into annual or mid-year reviews, and they talk about work objectives first and then ask if you need any personal development. This puts employees on the back foot because they feel like they have to talk about it after agreeing to work objectives. To promote a growth mindset, we need to flip this around and talk about professional development first. Imagine a world where we talk about development first and then the objectives. This creates a mindset where employees feel supported and encouraged to develop their skills.

Creating spaces for learning in different ways is also important. In my team, we have daily scrums, show-and-tell sessions three times a week where different members share something they’ve learned, seen, or done. This creates a constant learning dialogue. Recognizing achievements and providing ongoing feedback is crucial. This creates an environment where employees feel valued and motivated to learn.

Neha: Great insights, Hannah. Teresa, what’s your take on empowering employees to take ownership of their learning, in tandem with improving the culture of continuous learning?

Establishing Conditions for Effective Learning and Organizational Transformation

Teresa: Several different angles here. I echo what Hannah said, particularly around creating conditions for learning to happen and something to be done with that learning. You can have lots of learning going on, but if it’s just content consumption, it won’t be effective. There’s an equation I like to use from Boxall and Purcell’s work: Performance equals the function of ability (skills), motivation, and the opportunity provided by the organization. With these in place, you create conditions for learning.

I’ve worked with organizations on large projects, putting these conditions in place, which takes time and requires senior leadership sponsorship. It’s about doing with rather than doing to. The most success comes from working inside the business, talking to people, and uncovering what’s really going on. For example, at DNV, we worked on enabling digital transformation pre-COVID. This preparation allowed them to pivot quickly when the pandemic hit, keeping the organization afloat during difficult times. Having those conditions in place made a significant difference.

Success Stories in Upskilling and Reskilling

We would love to hear some successful upskilling and reskilling initiatives you’ve implemented or seen across organizations. What was the challenge, and how did you bring the initiative into place? Teresa, let’s start with you.

Transforming HR with the People Management at E.ON Project

Teresa: I’m going to use an example from my time at E.ON, a project called People Management at E.ON, which I led for about 18 months to two years. The organization was going through an HR transformation, moving towards a devolved model of people management to the line manager and reducing support from HR. This meant new ways of working for them.

I gathered a lot of data, used an organizational development mindset, and did extensive contracting with stakeholders. I involved managers and colleagues, co-creating the People Management at E.ON concept, covering the entire people management life cycle. We had behavioral indicators written in their language, not HR’s language. We did prototypes and testing before launching. I monitored data on uptake, ran campaigns with a comms partner, and ensured it was embedded into business as usual. This continuous feedback loop and iteration made it a success.

Neha: Great story, Teresa. Dr. Gore, could you share one of your anecdotes of successful implementation?

Implementing the Three-Tier Leadership Program at QS

Hannah: One of my latest pieces is the three-tier leadership program at QS, something I’m profoundly proud of. It’s an open-entry program with tiered progression—Emerge for those without direct reports, Advance for those with line management capabilities, and Propel for senior leaders. Participants can nominate themselves and progress through the tiers, engaging in peer social learning and reflective activities.

They use reflective toolkits, engage in workshops, and participate in AI-driven role plays with Metasim for real-life practice. Propel participants work with Loughborough University on messy and sticky problems, presenting solutions to our C-suite. The program is completely optional, but 14% of our population is currently enrolled, leading to our most profitable year and highest retention rates.

Measuring the Effectiveness and ROI

Any success story is incomplete without discussing metrics. How do you measure the effectiveness and ROI of these programs? What metrics do you find most valuable for assessing the impact on employee performance and organizational growth? Teresa, let’s start with you.

Using Internal Data Points and Strategic Metrics to Drive L&D Initiatives

Teresa: With the example I gave, we used internal data points like employee engagement surveys, looking at different managers and departments. We changed reward mechanisms to prioritize people development. Scoping documents with viable metrics linked to strategic objectives were crucial. If the metrics didn’t align with strategic goals, the intervention wouldn’t happen. We had an HR change board to ensure no blockage in the system and to assess the resource available and strategic impact.

Neha: Hannah, what are your top metrics for these initiatives, and how do you justify the ROI?

Key Metrics for L&D and Justifying ROI in Business Terms

Hannah: The type of data I gather focuses on business metrics that the CEO cares about and learning data. These include organizational development, growth, ROI on the bottom line, shorter sales gestation periods, increased productivity, lower retention rates, employee satisfaction surveys, and growth of market share. It’s essential to connect these dots with the help of business leaders.

Operationally, we measure better skills, job application, and productivity. Learning design metrics include responses, surveys, completion rates, and engagement data. Good L&D makes a company, and bad L&D breaks a company. Understanding business metrics is crucial to getting stakeholder engagement, resources, and support for future initiatives.

Parting Thoughts and Conclusion

Any parting thoughts you have before we end the show?

Joint Accountability and Tangible Business Metrics in L&D

Teresa: Yeah, I think on this data and metrics question, it’s brought to mind something that Charles Jennings talks about. If you’re familiar with Charles Jennings, if you’re not, then please do look him up and follow his work. He talks about when he was in an organization, he had joint accountability with, I think it was his vice president or president of sales and marketing. They had joint accountability for those business metrics and those business goals. I think that would be more beneficial if there was a lot more of that in learning and development with that joint accountability and less emphasis, as Hannah said, on the bums on seats or the virtual bums on seats or whatever loose kind of vanity metric performance metric that you’re using and real great tangible business metrics. I hear myself saying it as well, talking about L&D and the business separately. It’s all one team; you’re serving the business. It’s probably why I’m not a fan of an L&D strategy. Your strategy is the business strategy.

Neha: It’s basically L&D should be alongside the strategy and not like having L&D’s strategy separately. Now, I think it’s a distraction from getting stuff done that needs to get done where there’s too much navel-gazing. It’s just go and get the work done, work out what needs to be done, and do it.

Teresa: True, true. Totally agree with it.

Neha: Perfect. Thanks a lot. A huge shout-out to both of you, Hannah and Teresa, for your invaluable insights. To our listeners, remember, investing in your workforce’s skill is an investment in your organization’s future. Stay tuned for more inspiring stories on the Digital Adoption Show, available on all major podcasting platforms. And don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe to keep the learning going. Thank you, Hannah and Teresa. We had a lovely time hosting you.